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Poster: BornEasement Date: Mar 15, 2012 3:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Matrixes?

Assuming that most of the regular posters What a matrix is and what it does to the music, I'd like to hear some opinions. They seem to divide most of my Dead-loving friends; some say its the best way to just muck up a good soundboard while others maintain that they really fill out the sound, making it more realistic and therefore engaging. Presumably this has something to do with HOW we all listen to the dead. I find the "shufflers" (anyone with an ipod knows what I mean) to tend toward 77, soundboards, and their favorite tunes. Others like imagining the grass in our toes and a full pack of smokes and the dead blazing away, even if its a promised land or somethin' dinky like that. Plenty of people are in between too. After getting seriously into 73/74 audience tapes recently, I've started really digging Matrixes as a way of filling out AUDIENCE tapes rather than the other way around. They have a wonderfully tendency to be complete despite any partial drop-outs and once my ears warm up, i don't notice or mind any muck at all. Thoughts? Controversy encouraged.

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Mar 16, 2012 8:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Matrixes?

Like so many other things in life it boils down to personal choice/taste. Personally, i'm only interested in listening to what's happening on stage, musically.

A Healy Ultrasound matrix recorded at the board and i have no problem with that. My concern is that by combining two different sources of the same performance in a mixing environment creates and adds phase distortion unlike and when compared to the original soundboard recording.

Add to the mix the reality that many audience tapes were recorded on either inexpensive Sony stereo mics or Nakamichi CM-300's. Take the Nakamichi CM-300 for example, a reasonable pedestrian microphone with easily 5% distortion. Add in the boominess, resonance and reverberation of the hall, or worse yet the distance outdoors from the stage to the tapers section and you have a fundamentally flawed recording on many levels, noise.

Not intending to insult Hunter, he seems like a stand up fellow, just expressing my humble opinion. I get that some folks enjoy the sound of the audience tape and how it reminds them of the "show" experience and all, once again, it boils down to personal preference and taste.

If the only available source is an audience recording, the performance is strong and the recording delivers, well ... and there certainly are some solid audience & stage microphone recordings stored here at the archive.


Did you say a pair of Schoeps from the fourth row?

:-)




This post was modified by dark.starz on 2012-03-17 03:55:21

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Mar 16, 2012 7:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Matrixes?

"Personally, i'm only interested in listening to what's happening on stage, musically."

http://www.archive.org/post/414542/alpine-valley-and-gt-china-cat-and-gt-rider

I'm just curious as to why you chose the AUD for the above show over the SBD.

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Poster: BornEasement Date: Mar 16, 2012 2:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Matrixes?

A bunch of it has to do with era too, for me. 77 shows tend to be well recorded, with full vocals, etc, but those WOS shows have such "hot" sounding vocals and drums 'cause of the feedback-cancelling mics they designed that a matrix really helps fill stuff out. The 80's aren't my specialty... do you suggest good matrixes to help change that?

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Mar 15, 2012 4:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Matrixes?

http://www.archive.org/post/404051/new-matrix-or-a-waste-of-time

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Poster: BornEasement Date: Mar 15, 2012 4:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Matrixes?

I vaguely remember this when I was about to post, and i guess I was looking to hear those "hardliners" for and against Matrixes state their positions more clearly for me so that I can understand it better. Yasee, I've come to be totally unable to comprehend why someone WOULDN'T want a matrix. Tunes are great, especially WOS ones, because the vocals gain depth and presence. Jams are great because the nuances of Jerry's tone and the space in the music gain a lot from the resonance of the hall. The sound just gets "bigger" to me, more like the dead.

p.s. AUDS are evil? Who says this? Wherefore?

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Poster: utopian Date: Mar 15, 2012 6:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Matrixes?

The only reason to EVER complain about a matrix is if they removed all other copies. If you don't like it, don't listen.....




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Poster: ColdRain108 Date: Mar 16, 2012 9:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Matrixes?

There are a bunch of knuckleheads here who want to control what you and I listen too. What they deem as acceptable GD music is all that anyone else should be allowed to enjoy.

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Mar 15, 2012 6:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Matrixes?

I enjoy a good matrix. I think at times it adds a nice element. Always been fond of 1987-04-06, which i believe exists as a matrix, might be wrong. I usually prefer a SBD but do have a few shows where I go to the AUD recording before the SBD. Sometimes the comments from people in the crowd or reactions adds something. And if it sounds nearly as good, why not choose a matrix or AUD.

What i really dont get is how people use shuffle. I always just pick what I feel like listening to. Which more often than not is the other one.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Mar 16, 2012 6:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Matrixes?

I agree it's all subjective and a personal choice. But I for one love a well done matrix. Not only for the "puts you there" feeling, but it gives you the fullness and depth that sometimes a SBD can lack. Now I will say that both souces need to be top-notch. You can't combine a nice SBD with a muddy AUD or a crispy Glassberg MOTB with a hissy, who-knows-what gen SBD. Seamons has done some outstanding work along these lines as have others. I know some in the MATRIX MIXES ARE AN ABOMINATION AND SHOULD BE OUTLAWED camp complain that you're ruining perfectly good SBD's with intrusive, sub-par, mindless chatter filled AUD's. Well, as has been said here and elsewhere, no one has to listen to these mixes. As long as the oringinal sources remain aviailable in their untouched state, who cares if someone cares enough about the music to take the time and care to create and share these labors of love? It's easy enough to judge from the sidelines, but you must respect the fact that the matrix-creators are rolling up their sleeves and actually creating something new.

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Poster: Seskyl Date: Mar 16, 2012 6:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Jerry Band

Does anyone know why there are no JGB shows within this site? There is another site that has most of them, however there are no SBD or Matrix mixes, only AUD recording. Most of us grew up listening to these AUD's on tape, but it's hard to beat a clean SBD or Matrix. Most of us also grew up listening to Jerry Band as much or even more than the Dead, so I'm confused as to why there not here. Anyone know?

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Mar 16, 2012 7:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Band

"Most of us also grew up listening to Jerry Band as much or even more than the Dead"

Interesting. What leads you to believe this?

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Poster: Seskyl Date: Mar 16, 2012 7:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Band

I grew up in a family that listened to the boys during meals, and pretty much anytime we were all together. There were times we would get tapes from a particurly good run of Jerry shows, and would not listen to the Dead for a month or more. All of my friends and associates did the same. Jerry created music of many formats, and a lot of it is as good as the Grateful Dead were at their best. That is not to take away from the boys, but just shows how great Jerry was.

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Poster: portmcgroin Date: Mar 16, 2012 8:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Band

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWfuzQxPjFU
Bring a bucket in case you have to throw up. Basically legal issues.
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN1ZGTlaP0I&;feature=related
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8-VAW4nyRs&;feature=related

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Mar 16, 2012 8:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Band

“I grew up in a family that listened to the boys during meals, and pretty much anytime we were all together.”

That's awesome! I'm sure not many people can say the same.

I also go on Jerry binges where I will avoid the Dead, or hardly listen to them at all for awhile. I agree his side projects are every bit as good as the Dead. They really gave him the freedom to branch out and do whatever he wanted.

I think it's a bit of a generalization though to say “Most of us also grew up listening to Jerry Band as much or even more than the Dead” when it seems you are basing your thoughts on just you and your friends' experiences. Keep in mind I'm only 24, but I have listened to Jerry for awhile and have known and talked to many others who have as well. From what I've experienced, the more serious heads tend to listen to more JGB than the casual Dead fan. There are exceptions though of course.

I know your initial question has been asked before, but I can't recall why these recordings aren't available here. Are you familiar with sugarmegs, thejerrysite, bt.etree, losslesslegs, etc?

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Mar 16, 2012 8:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Band

The basic answer is that Jerry's widow controls the JGB stuff and she won't allow it.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Mar 16, 2012 10:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Band

That's not entirely accurate. The Garcia Family, LLC, which is primarily Jerry's daughters (including Annabelle and Sunshine; Annabelle and Acacia, Rock's stepdaughter, used to be the go to connection for JGB tix at the Stone), were the ones responsible for the last Garcia/Kahn acoustic release and also helpd nix any involvement, along with Grateful Dead Productions, in the Jerry film. They are at odds with, and in alliance with, Koons on various issues. Hell, even Merle Saunders' kids have been involved in litigation against the Garcia estate/kids... Once the fuckin' lawyers get invovled, all bets are off and settlements have a funny way of releasing things in dribs and drabs...
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/candce/5:2008cv05772/210066/

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Mar 16, 2012 1:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Band

Hmmm...... first you'd have to grow up!